Washing Diapers in a Twin Tub Panda Washer

I've seen several inquiries and google searches about washing cloth diapers in a Twin Tub Panda, I'm no expert, but have been doing this for a year, changing routines, adapting to new situations and battling ammonia, so I'll see if I can answer your doubts to the best of my abilities.

Is it possible to wash diapers in a Twin Tub portable washer?
Yes. It takes more time than doing it on a regular and you have to do it more frequently, but it can be done.

How often should diapers be washed?
Depends on the number of diapers being used and the age of the machine. When it was newer, I could wash 10-12 diapers at a time, which allowed me to go for a couple of days without them accumulating if I had only one child in diapers (I had 2 for several months). Since it has been losing power due to barring and over use (and abuse), I do 7-8 diapers now, so I can wash twice every three days.

Should I spin the diapers inbetween rinses?
I do, just like in a regular machine, because it gets rid of more soap and more ammonia, but if you have good results skipping that step, good for you. This machine is extremely flexible, you control the time, the ammount of water and how many times you wash and rinse, there is no automatic cycle you have to adapt to.

Do diapers come dry out of the spinner?
No. But they dry much faster when you hang them than coming out of a regular washer. Polyester fabrics come almost ready, it takes a couple of hours, natural fibers are usually dry overnight, depending on humidity conditions.

Can I use a different detergent for my regular clothes?
Yes, I do that all the time, just give a rinse to the tub before you start filling it up.

Can I drain the water in the bathtub, will it overflow?
Yes, you can. It fills about 1/5 of the bathtub when you drain and it empties out in a couple of minutes. It is much safer than draining in the bathroom sink and pumping water in the drainage.

Do diapers get ammonia when washing them in a small portable setting?
Like any other devise, they might. In order to wash the ammonia buildup away, you need a combo of temperature, detergent and time washing. I use a ton of soap, hot water and 12 minutes in the wash and that keeps it down. I actually have an easier time dealing with ammonia with the Panda than with a regular Maytag.

Will my diapers get stained?
They might, I get less stains than in a regular washer, but if they do, I just hang them by the window and they are good as new after 2 or 3 washes (stains do not affect the diaper's funcionality).

What do I do if the washer starts walking?
Your spin drier is out of balance, open it and reaccomodate the clothes on top, trying to put them evenly and flat.

I like my puffy prefolds, can I get puff in the spin drier?
No, you need an air based drier for that. Time also helps, sometimes prefolds I haven't used in weeks appear fluffy later on.

How long does it take to get the diapers clean?
50 min to an hour according to my routine. About 2/3 of the time, the machine is doing its job by itself, no need to stay and babysit.

Can I leave the tub filling and come back later?
Yes, the machine has a hole on top that keeps the water draining into the inner tub and out, so it won't overflow (you still need to save water).

Can I leave the tub draining and come back later?
Yes, but there is no timer in the draining pump, so I wouldn't recommend leaving it on for  an undetermined period of time.

Can I leave the washer and/or the spinner working and come back later?
Absolutely!

Will my diapers get damaged if washed in the Panda?
I've been using diapers for more than a year in a very limited stash. The Fuzibunz look good as new and so do the Tots Bots and the Blueberries. The Grovias do look wasted in the leg elastics, but I bought those used already.

How many times should I wash/rinse in the tub to get them clean?
As many as you seem appropiate. I do 4 (3 min hot rinse - 12 min hot wash - 5 min hot rinse - 3 minute cold rinse) and do not spin between 1 and 2. That's the equivalent to 2 cycles in a regular washing machine but with hotter water.

Can I use Dawn or Oxyclean in the Panda?
I do. Much safer to use Dawn in a Panda than in a regular washer.

Do diapers get moldy if left inside the spinner?
Depends on how long, the only times I have had mold issues the diapers were inside a bag damp for several hours, it was only the Grovias. I would still recommend not leaving them overnight in the spinner (no problem with leaving them soaking in the big tub).

I hope this helps, feel free to ask more.

Fears, Rules and Detergents

Like most moms, I bought my fluff and wanted to do everything right. That included the religious washing routine that required a special detergent.

My first choice was All Free and Clear. Later on I saw that the cloth diapering community had mixed results on it. Some approved it but not as the best, some completely trashed it. It was a pain trying to keep the build up down, but the reason I gave up on it was that it wasn't getting the job done. Great for poop stains, but not so fantastic for urine removal.

I switched to ECOS, since it was relatively cheap and "all natural". Remember what I said about All and the stains? well, that's why I missed it. Not only did it not remove stains, it was so gentle on the diapers that it left the ammonia there,  just in case the diaper would be too stressed out with the chemical reaction.

In the meantime, I spent some 10 weeks of the hot season out of here. Near Lake Erie, I asked before hand what detergent worked nice in the area, the answer was Tiny Bubbles, so I rushed to buy it so that it would be waiting for me when we arrived. It was my first time with a cd specific detergent!
 Too bad it doesn't clean. I couldn't stand the smell, even when it was supposed to be perfume free, having to dilute it in hot water was a pain and Little Guy started having rashes within a week.

Fortunately, the Flats and Handwashing challenge came, and for washing my t-shirts I used a bar soap. It didn't work great either, but survived the 7 days. Came back home one week later.

After that, I went to see my folks in Mexico and walked throuhg all Walmart trying to find a perfume free detergent - not such luck. So, when asking my mom what she used to wash baby clothes, she said Zote

Of course, Zote has been around since way before I can remember. It is a bar soap, and every house in Mexico, regardless of having a washer or not, has a bar at hand. I did not want to spend time grinding it though, but happened to find a washer friendly version in flakes. OK, I guessed I would strip my diapers when I came back.

2 weeks later, I couldn't believe it. Certaintly it wasn't great for the stains (sun helped with those), but all the ammonia smell had completely dissapeared. I was slightly bothered by the perfume, but no rashes and no stinkies at all!

I came back and started using ECOS again. The amount of boosters was unbelievable. I was adding baking soda, Dawn, Castile soap and Hidrogen peroxide to the mix and still no results. Stink had come back in a week.

Back in the lake, I found Eco Nuts in the coop and decided to give them a try. Stinkies decreased, much better than Tiny Bubbles, but terrible with stains. I'll keep them there for sure, but I'm not convinced that they work for everything as they claim.

Back here, I remembered I had a small piece of Zote that my uncle gave to me in our Christmas trip to Texas. Couldn't hurt to try.

So, since my washer is so primitive and I fill the tub with my hand held shower hose, I just put the Zote piece below it and allowed whatever it released into the mix. The results were immediate.

I had finally found a way to wash my diapers without spending tons of money ($2 a bar) without buildup and without theneed of boosters. I've been using it for 2 months without a problem. In fact, I'm using it for all my laundry, leaving ECOS only for backup.

This was the epiphany: "Detergent buildup is easy to remove, ammonia is not". Truth is, most of us are so scared about our investment being ruined and warranties being voided, that we forget the most important function o fa detergent: to clean.

Later in the Cloth Diaper Support Group I'm enrolled, a lot of requests for help have appeared. Ammonia is a big monster, one you need your best arsenal to fight. Sometimes, that arsenal implies breaking the sacred rules. A lot of moms just plain and simple go with Tide. Others use tons of hot water and some more use more detergent than the mandated, bleach or even boil them. Remember, the most important thing is to keep the baby safe and rash free, not to keep your diapers with a valid warranty.

Sometimes we need to look back and see what our moms did, and this is what they did in Mexico to wash flats. This soap is so good that Mexicans are not wondering around the grocery store trying to figure out the best detergent for their babies. Sometimes, what has always been done is what works best.

I don't know if I'll keep using it, but so far, it has the least amount of buildup and usage with the highest efficiency. Suds are mostly gone after the first rinse, by the second, the smell (that is strong, have to admit) is gone.

I put the soap inside a baby sock and just toss it with the wash in hot water. couldn't be happier with the results.




 

My Twin Tub Panda Washing Achievements

Before I bought my washing machine, we used a laundromat for all cotton stuff. They came, took a bag of dirty laundry and brought a bag of clean one.

For everything else, I would wash in our vacation house, 450 miles from here. I would get all the clothes in a huge laundry bag and come back with everything clean. That worked only when we went there every other 2 months, however, that is not always possible.

With a new baby, explosions every 3 hours became the norm, and I didn't have my husband available this time to hand wash those. I would leave them in the sink only to find them in the very same spot and remembering he's not able bodied like he used to be.

So, the idea of the washer was to help me with those delicate items that I wouldn't send to the laundromat, as well as those baby clothes that needed immediate attention. I never expected to wash absolutely everything in this little thing, but I just couldn't stop.

So far, in the 4 months that I've had it, the list includes:

• Baby clothes
• Cloth diapers and wipes
• underwear and socks for all the family
• pants and t-shirts
• jeans
• tons of towels
• sheets
• blouses
• sweatshirts
• a silk shirt
• a knit sweater
• a polyester blanket
• an army jacket
• a pillow (already bulky)
• bathroom mats
• a mattress cover
• a full size thick bathrobe
• courtiains

Since I have way more control than with a regular Maytag, I can put another cycle, regulate the water level and temperature, leave the clothes soaking after the agitation, etc. So everything can come cleaner than with an automatic. The trick is not to overload the washing tub and fill the spinner all the way to the top. Ah, and using very small amounts of detergent

Free of Chemicals? Not so Sure

I've been battling a chronic rash in Little Guy. It is incredible that he has it, given that he spends most of the day dressed in his Angel Costume wearing more hair than clothes.

I had to totally give up un cotton and start using pockets with him for nights and naps, which makes it harder to keep up on laundry since I only have 17  (including 5 AIOs) for Tiny Guy to use, and I can't use the Fuzzibunz on him because they are a little on the small side and it would require me sizing them back and forth all day long. I also can't use the GroVias because, as I've said, I've given up cotton on him, so that  leaves me to the Ecconappi (sad face).

So, how come Little Guy's butt is all burned if he's wearing diapers with "no chemicals"?

Well, here's the catch: no such thing.

Ammonia

First, and most important, is the pee itself, which is a very complex compound. Which is why I'm wearing a layer to take it away from his butt. The problem is that, contrary to what people may think, it is very hard to clean. Some fabrics tend to retain urea crystals, no matter how many times you rinse, and over time, the amount grows and decomposes to ammonia, to a  level that will at any contact with liquids and on some occasions  burn the skin.

Detergents.

No matter how hypoallergenic the stuff is, or how "free and clear". It needs cleaning agents. Period. No cleaning agents, no urea removal. If someone uses plain water to clean diapers, it would take some 20 washes or more every time. And those chemicals will, again, build up and leave residues in the fabric. Next thing you know, in the best case scenario you'll have repelling. In the worst, rashes again.

Water.

There's no place on earth in which you will get plain H20 from the tap. Not only it does not exist in nature, but as a solvent, it grabs whatever is there, so it would be impossible to keep it pure and clean. Some places do better jobs than others in keeping it free of toxins and adding a balanced combination of stuff to make it potable. Others have wells and water takes whatever is on them. In any case, water will mostly come with chlorine and fluoride and some other salts. That means that you can not trust your washing routine to work on a different location and that those salts will build up too. For some hard water places, the easiest solution seems to be Calgon. I'll tell you my experience when that happens. Right now I have extremely soft (and not good at removing soap) East Coast water.

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So far, no detergent has proven to remove all the crystals and leave no residue with just a couple of rinses regardless of location and water composition. We can only do the old fashion trial and error and do our best to keep those bums as chemical free as possible. As always, with cloth it's our choice and our chore, not a corporation's.

My first ammobattle

When one of the reasons for having switched is the smell, having ammonia build-up defeats the purpose. My prefolds got so stinky that Little Guy would use them for half an hour and would be already dizzying me.

When you try your friend Google to tell you what to do, the options are quite a few. This is my nightmare experience:

• I separated them from the pockets and synthetic fabrics and used a little bit of Dr Bronner's peppermint soap. Useless
• I went against what the websites say and used oxyclean on natural fabric. Useless
• I used a little more detergent and rinsed more times. Useless.
• I used baking soda. Useless.
• I used a tiny bit of vinegar. It ended up burning both boys' skin and causing the worst rash in History. and, on top of that, Useless.

I finally broke down and bought a small Dawn dish soap and stripped them. It worked. I may have to do it again when the smell starts being unbearable, but since Little Guy is starting to use the potty by himself (only when not using anything at all), I may put them away in a few weeks for a while.

That has been the biggest nightmare so far. It all depends on the detergent you are using, the water in your town and your washing machine, so one of the methods above may work for you.