Washing Diapers in a Twin Tub Panda Washer

I've seen several inquiries and google searches about washing cloth diapers in a Twin Tub Panda, I'm no expert, but have been doing this for a year, changing routines, adapting to new situations and battling ammonia, so I'll see if I can answer your doubts to the best of my abilities.

Is it possible to wash diapers in a Twin Tub portable washer?
Yes. It takes more time than doing it on a regular and you have to do it more frequently, but it can be done.

How often should diapers be washed?
Depends on the number of diapers being used and the age of the machine. When it was newer, I could wash 10-12 diapers at a time, which allowed me to go for a couple of days without them accumulating if I had only one child in diapers (I had 2 for several months). Since it has been losing power due to barring and over use (and abuse), I do 7-8 diapers now, so I can wash twice every three days.

Should I spin the diapers inbetween rinses?
I do, just like in a regular machine, because it gets rid of more soap and more ammonia, but if you have good results skipping that step, good for you. This machine is extremely flexible, you control the time, the ammount of water and how many times you wash and rinse, there is no automatic cycle you have to adapt to.

Do diapers come dry out of the spinner?
No. But they dry much faster when you hang them than coming out of a regular washer. Polyester fabrics come almost ready, it takes a couple of hours, natural fibers are usually dry overnight, depending on humidity conditions.

Can I use a different detergent for my regular clothes?
Yes, I do that all the time, just give a rinse to the tub before you start filling it up.

Can I drain the water in the bathtub, will it overflow?
Yes, you can. It fills about 1/5 of the bathtub when you drain and it empties out in a couple of minutes. It is much safer than draining in the bathroom sink and pumping water in the drainage.

Do diapers get ammonia when washing them in a small portable setting?
Like any other devise, they might. In order to wash the ammonia buildup away, you need a combo of temperature, detergent and time washing. I use a ton of soap, hot water and 12 minutes in the wash and that keeps it down. I actually have an easier time dealing with ammonia with the Panda than with a regular Maytag.

Will my diapers get stained?
They might, I get less stains than in a regular washer, but if they do, I just hang them by the window and they are good as new after 2 or 3 washes (stains do not affect the diaper's funcionality).

What do I do if the washer starts walking?
Your spin drier is out of balance, open it and reaccomodate the clothes on top, trying to put them evenly and flat.

I like my puffy prefolds, can I get puff in the spin drier?
No, you need an air based drier for that. Time also helps, sometimes prefolds I haven't used in weeks appear fluffy later on.

How long does it take to get the diapers clean?
50 min to an hour according to my routine. About 2/3 of the time, the machine is doing its job by itself, no need to stay and babysit.

Can I leave the tub filling and come back later?
Yes, the machine has a hole on top that keeps the water draining into the inner tub and out, so it won't overflow (you still need to save water).

Can I leave the tub draining and come back later?
Yes, but there is no timer in the draining pump, so I wouldn't recommend leaving it on for  an undetermined period of time.

Can I leave the washer and/or the spinner working and come back later?
Absolutely!

Will my diapers get damaged if washed in the Panda?
I've been using diapers for more than a year in a very limited stash. The Fuzibunz look good as new and so do the Tots Bots and the Blueberries. The Grovias do look wasted in the leg elastics, but I bought those used already.

How many times should I wash/rinse in the tub to get them clean?
As many as you seem appropiate. I do 4 (3 min hot rinse - 12 min hot wash - 5 min hot rinse - 3 minute cold rinse) and do not spin between 1 and 2. That's the equivalent to 2 cycles in a regular washing machine but with hotter water.

Can I use Dawn or Oxyclean in the Panda?
I do. Much safer to use Dawn in a Panda than in a regular washer.

Do diapers get moldy if left inside the spinner?
Depends on how long, the only times I have had mold issues the diapers were inside a bag damp for several hours, it was only the Grovias. I would still recommend not leaving them overnight in the spinner (no problem with leaving them soaking in the big tub).

I hope this helps, feel free to ask more.

Fears, Rules and Detergents

Like most moms, I bought my fluff and wanted to do everything right. That included the religious washing routine that required a special detergent.

My first choice was All Free and Clear. Later on I saw that the cloth diapering community had mixed results on it. Some approved it but not as the best, some completely trashed it. It was a pain trying to keep the build up down, but the reason I gave up on it was that it wasn't getting the job done. Great for poop stains, but not so fantastic for urine removal.

I switched to ECOS, since it was relatively cheap and "all natural". Remember what I said about All and the stains? well, that's why I missed it. Not only did it not remove stains, it was so gentle on the diapers that it left the ammonia there,  just in case the diaper would be too stressed out with the chemical reaction.

In the meantime, I spent some 10 weeks of the hot season out of here. Near Lake Erie, I asked before hand what detergent worked nice in the area, the answer was Tiny Bubbles, so I rushed to buy it so that it would be waiting for me when we arrived. It was my first time with a cd specific detergent!
 Too bad it doesn't clean. I couldn't stand the smell, even when it was supposed to be perfume free, having to dilute it in hot water was a pain and Little Guy started having rashes within a week.

Fortunately, the Flats and Handwashing challenge came, and for washing my t-shirts I used a bar soap. It didn't work great either, but survived the 7 days. Came back home one week later.

After that, I went to see my folks in Mexico and walked throuhg all Walmart trying to find a perfume free detergent - not such luck. So, when asking my mom what she used to wash baby clothes, she said Zote

Of course, Zote has been around since way before I can remember. It is a bar soap, and every house in Mexico, regardless of having a washer or not, has a bar at hand. I did not want to spend time grinding it though, but happened to find a washer friendly version in flakes. OK, I guessed I would strip my diapers when I came back.

2 weeks later, I couldn't believe it. Certaintly it wasn't great for the stains (sun helped with those), but all the ammonia smell had completely dissapeared. I was slightly bothered by the perfume, but no rashes and no stinkies at all!

I came back and started using ECOS again. The amount of boosters was unbelievable. I was adding baking soda, Dawn, Castile soap and Hidrogen peroxide to the mix and still no results. Stink had come back in a week.

Back in the lake, I found Eco Nuts in the coop and decided to give them a try. Stinkies decreased, much better than Tiny Bubbles, but terrible with stains. I'll keep them there for sure, but I'm not convinced that they work for everything as they claim.

Back here, I remembered I had a small piece of Zote that my uncle gave to me in our Christmas trip to Texas. Couldn't hurt to try.

So, since my washer is so primitive and I fill the tub with my hand held shower hose, I just put the Zote piece below it and allowed whatever it released into the mix. The results were immediate.

I had finally found a way to wash my diapers without spending tons of money ($2 a bar) without buildup and without theneed of boosters. I've been using it for 2 months without a problem. In fact, I'm using it for all my laundry, leaving ECOS only for backup.

This was the epiphany: "Detergent buildup is easy to remove, ammonia is not". Truth is, most of us are so scared about our investment being ruined and warranties being voided, that we forget the most important function o fa detergent: to clean.

Later in the Cloth Diaper Support Group I'm enrolled, a lot of requests for help have appeared. Ammonia is a big monster, one you need your best arsenal to fight. Sometimes, that arsenal implies breaking the sacred rules. A lot of moms just plain and simple go with Tide. Others use tons of hot water and some more use more detergent than the mandated, bleach or even boil them. Remember, the most important thing is to keep the baby safe and rash free, not to keep your diapers with a valid warranty.

Sometimes we need to look back and see what our moms did, and this is what they did in Mexico to wash flats. This soap is so good that Mexicans are not wondering around the grocery store trying to figure out the best detergent for their babies. Sometimes, what has always been done is what works best.

I don't know if I'll keep using it, but so far, it has the least amount of buildup and usage with the highest efficiency. Suds are mostly gone after the first rinse, by the second, the smell (that is strong, have to admit) is gone.

I put the soap inside a baby sock and just toss it with the wash in hot water. couldn't be happier with the results.




 

I Washed a Disposable!!!

2 nights ago, I restored cloth diapers at night for Tiny Guy, but still used a covered disposable for Little Guy. Last night, Little Guy wore a trifolded prefold with a cover, and woke up without rash and without ammonia smell. All was well and good. I had a ton of diapers to wash this morning, so I emptied the bag, collected Little Guy's and tiny Guy's used for the night and started the "soapless" prewash agitation. Later on, I came to drain and fill with hot water, when I noticed small "drops" like cristaline, in the diapers. Didn't pay much attention, but then, I realized the water was not getting drained and the pump was suffering. All of a sudden, I saw that cristaline thing again, and then, surprise surprise, it was SAP!!!!!!! I located the diaper that Little Guy had used 2 nights ago, I totally forgot to toss it in the trash and totally forgot that he had used one, just had taken the cover and tossed it in the wet bag. My nightmare was just starting. I had a tub, a stash of diapers, and a bathtub full of SAP in my hands!!!!! I started with the tub. Passed all the diapers to the spinner and turned the drainer back on. Fortunately I have paper towels at arms reach from there, so I started getting all that gel out with them. Boy, that mass is sticky and hard to reach. The gel was preventing the water from draining, so the water itself was making my life harder. Another thing is that I didn't know what SAP would cause in the drainage, but I was in no interest to find out, so I put the hair stopper in the bathtub, so that it would not make it there. I had to go through the whole thing, fold a paper towel and clean all the edges, and not leave a single bubble of gel around. By that time, I was already exhausted, the kids were relentless and my husband was wondering what had happened to me. So I came back to the leaving room, told him what had happened and saw his face of "poor little thing, you have a lot on your hands". Believe me, I would have much rather had him saying "ok, I'll take care of the bathtub, just finish the diapers", but no such luck. So, after having taken a brake, came the cleaning of the diapers. I decided that the better and faster way would be to hose them. So I placed them in a plastic bin, right besides the washer's big tub. Took the shower hose, placed it in high pressure and turned it on. Started with the inserts and wipes. One by one, making sure there was no trace of gel in any of them. By the time I had done like 5, my shoulder was already hurting and the tub was already full. It was going to be a loooong day, so I took another break. Repeated this a few times. The situation got a little more complicated with the wet bag, then came the dreaded pockets and the Simplex. I had to hose them, hold them and turn them upside down and hose again. One by one, the wet bag too. I was done after 6 PM with severe arthritis pain and still a bathtub to go. I left it sitting for a couple of hours and made sure the tub was out of water and then went for the easy solution: the vacuum cleaner. It was a tough bet, since gel is not solid nor liquid. After 4 minutes it started smelling weird and I topped, it did most of the job, but I don't know the consequences as of yet. Finished with a paper towel. Took the vacuum cleaner out, there was a big black spot on the rug, so now I'm washing the rug too. Diapers seem ok, had to use some dawn and extra stripping. As I've said, it was a very long day, don't try this at home.

What to do with Too Small Disposables

Due to several lost battles in the rash war, I had to give up on nighttime cloth diapering.

But my inventory of disposables was 2 bags of size twos and one single pull-up.

Then I wondered: could and should I use those little baby disposables on my big toddler?? mmm... wouldn't hurt to try....

So I went ahead and placed the small diaper inside a Real Nappies cover, just placed it all open on top, like an insert. Next morning, there was a lake around Little Guy, but his rash was much better (I may add we're using antibiotic and antifungal ointments). The diaper was completely full though.

Second night, I placed a prefold in bikini fold on top of the cover, so that it would catch the urine once the diaper was full. Total Success!! His rash is rapidly disappearing and he woke up dry as a grain of sand in the desert.

That gives me a relief. Tiny Guy was going to outgrow those diapers soon and I was going to be stuck with them taking space, now I know I can use them anytime I need a disposable for whatever reason.

He is taking a nap and I made a different experiment. I'm using a pocket with a trifolded prefold inside, covering the mini disposable. Wish us luck!

Free of Chemicals? Not so Sure

I've been battling a chronic rash in Little Guy. It is incredible that he has it, given that he spends most of the day dressed in his Angel Costume wearing more hair than clothes.

I had to totally give up un cotton and start using pockets with him for nights and naps, which makes it harder to keep up on laundry since I only have 17  (including 5 AIOs) for Tiny Guy to use, and I can't use the Fuzzibunz on him because they are a little on the small side and it would require me sizing them back and forth all day long. I also can't use the GroVias because, as I've said, I've given up cotton on him, so that  leaves me to the Ecconappi (sad face).

So, how come Little Guy's butt is all burned if he's wearing diapers with "no chemicals"?

Well, here's the catch: no such thing.

Ammonia

First, and most important, is the pee itself, which is a very complex compound. Which is why I'm wearing a layer to take it away from his butt. The problem is that, contrary to what people may think, it is very hard to clean. Some fabrics tend to retain urea crystals, no matter how many times you rinse, and over time, the amount grows and decomposes to ammonia, to a  level that will at any contact with liquids and on some occasions  burn the skin.

Detergents.

No matter how hypoallergenic the stuff is, or how "free and clear". It needs cleaning agents. Period. No cleaning agents, no urea removal. If someone uses plain water to clean diapers, it would take some 20 washes or more every time. And those chemicals will, again, build up and leave residues in the fabric. Next thing you know, in the best case scenario you'll have repelling. In the worst, rashes again.

Water.

There's no place on earth in which you will get plain H20 from the tap. Not only it does not exist in nature, but as a solvent, it grabs whatever is there, so it would be impossible to keep it pure and clean. Some places do better jobs than others in keeping it free of toxins and adding a balanced combination of stuff to make it potable. Others have wells and water takes whatever is on them. In any case, water will mostly come with chlorine and fluoride and some other salts. That means that you can not trust your washing routine to work on a different location and that those salts will build up too. For some hard water places, the easiest solution seems to be Calgon. I'll tell you my experience when that happens. Right now I have extremely soft (and not good at removing soap) East Coast water.

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So far, no detergent has proven to remove all the crystals and leave no residue with just a couple of rinses regardless of location and water composition. We can only do the old fashion trial and error and do our best to keep those bums as chemical free as possible. As always, with cloth it's our choice and our chore, not a corporation's.

My little Angel

Little Guy is in potty training mode. Yep, it means most of the day spent like God brought him to the world.
My Botticcelli  angel is in no way lessening the load, he still wears diapers at night and at naps, still 3 prefolds a day.
The problem is that he refuses to use underpants. And, if he is wearing a diaper, he doesn't bother to go to the potty, but if he's not wearing anything, then he goes to the potty, takes the cup to the bathroom and dumps the stuff in the toilet, and cleans it!
So I'm confronted with the dilemma of allowing him to be free or starting to push the usage of regular underwear, which I don't know the outcome (is he gonna use them properly or  pretend they are a diaper?)
In the meantime, he's surely enjoying his newly found freedom and doing his part on keeping it that way. It's been 7 days.

Synthetic vs Natural

With the new trend and the newer designs, comes the usage of new fabrics.

In our baby times, our moms (or grandmas if you're younger) used birdseye cotton. That's it.

Now, with the new cloth diaper industry, designers have come up with a variety  never seen before.

But what is best? what do we put in our little ones' butt?

As a newbbie, I went ahead and bought whatever I found in good price, and a 2 day stash of prefolds and covers. That got me organic cotton, bamboo and 2 forms of microfiber for the absorbent core, and microfleece and cotton velour for the stay dry layer, so I can't compare all types.

I also have not tested the absorbency with a measuring cup and a scale, I can only talk about my experience dealing with them. IMHO, the answer is simple: get both.

Natural

I like organic cotton and love bamboo. They absorb fine and compress when wet. They tend to keep what they absorb. This is an advantage for leak prevention, but a disadvantage for drying. Prefolds are not expensive, but you need covers, bamboo is a little more pricey, so I only have 4 inserts, but I have never had leaks with it.

When it comes to contact with the baby, my Tiny Guy cannot stand feeling wet, so, when I was using prefolds, I needed to change them almost every hour, even less, or he would be screaming. That's why I mostly use pockets with him, he needs a stay dry feature.

Another issue I've had with prefolds (that I use now with my Big Guy) is the washing. Since they tend to retain more, that translates to ammonia pretty well. I've had horrible rashes due to ammonia buildup and it has escalated to the usage of blue Dawn in every wash. I may even bleach them one of these days.

Then it comes what I love the most: organic cotton velour. It is the only thing I use at night with Tiny Guy. He sleeps all night without any problems. He  wakes up with the diaper all soaked, I change it first thing and take the soakers off. The main problem with it is the price. Oh, and the drying time, which, although not exactly slow, takes a few hours hanging in the inside.

And lastly, stains. For some reason, my main stain concerns come from the Grovia AIOs, with cotton soakers. I just hang them near the window and let the sun take care of things.

Synthetic

I'm not in love with microterry, but I do use it, and I do love mink. I like microfleece as well, but not as much as cotton velour.  Microfiber absorbs like crazy, but just like it absorbs, it dries. That means, any contact with it will release water. Translation: LEAKS.

I may say that 95% of the leaks I've dealt with have included microfiber. The worse ones were with Fuzzibunz, that gave in to 2 explosions, one in the middle of the night, staining my blanket while I was nursing, and the other one while I was out and my beloved husband used Murphy's Oil Soap to wash it.  Only one #2 leak has occured ever since (and very minor).

Changes that involve exclusive mink have to be within 2 hours, and if Tiny Guy is sitting in his bouncy chair, wetness will still come sometimes. Just squeeze a little and voilá, wet leg at 9. On the other hand, once out of the spin dryer, they are ready to use within an hour of hanging. No waiting time required!

As for the staydry of my pockets, it gets grummy after a few washes, and leaves residues all over, but it does keep him happy and moisture free (to a nice degree). The Fuzzibunz pockets dry extremely fast, so you can just keep using them.

And for stains, the question is: "what stains?" really, dump the dirty stuff in the washer and you won't have any souvenirs after they're dry.  Plus: the inserts are cheaper than bamboo and the pockets cheaper than cotton velour.

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So, I would say, give variety a try. You may like hemp and suedecloth as well.  and yet more options for covers.....

Husband Evolution IV

I don't know if it was the lack of smell, the lack of leaks or conquering the fear of the unknown, but my husband has gotten to be very fond of cloth diapers, and now he calls them a crowning success.

I still need to keep the subject coming and the education ongoing. He has no idea of any lexicon regarding the CD world, and accidentally threw a snappi in the garbage. Plus he won't deal with the aftermath of any explosion, so I have opted for leaving an empty clean wet bag for him when I'm out, so that if there's any solid waste material that needs disposing, I don't have to dig through a day's worth of wet inserts.

I totally vote for snaps over velcro. Even if I'm only using prefolds and a cover, if I leave them ready to put on, I'm sure he'll put them fine, snaps are always in the same place, they make sure the position is alright and look cuter. But I do prefer leaving Little Guy and Tiny Guy using prefolds or AIOs when I leave, so that when he changes them, they just get tossed in the bag. I don't like digging for pockets to unstuff.

Yesterday I left without having changed Little Guy, didn't have time, so I said before leaving that he needed a change ASAP. Unfortunately, I could only express 2 ounces of milk for Tiny Guy. That ended up being an almost quasi catastrophe. Less than an hour after my departure, he calls me in total distress saying that Tiny Guy was crying for food and and gone through the ridiculous supply already. I hung up the phone and thought for a minute. Most likely I was going to abandon and probably lose my job, but I could not have a baby suffering for food for another 3 hours. Then I remembered I had an emergency 4oz bag in the freezer, so I called him back and told him so.

Well, that saved the day, I came home to find Tiny Guy happy, with clean pajamas and Little Guy asleep. All seemed fine, so I relaxed for a bit. Then, some 30 minutes later, out of the corner of my eye, I saw All the diapers I had left prepared for Little Guy unused. With all the stress of the milk situation, he forgot to change that diaper I had asked for.

Results? well, no leaks (prefolds are awesome), but several hours exposed to humidity left a very red rash in his butt. I had to put neosporin on him and leave him wearing disposables for the rest of the evening. At night, all the ointment was gone, so I put him on Swaddlebees Econappi's (which I normally use for his brother) so that he would stay dry. He's healed now, but still wearing pockets for the rest of the day.

So, my husband is evolving and growing into them, but, we still have lots of work to do.

The Minky Taco and the Grovification

After a full 2 day load, I was folding and stuffing while talking to my husband and having Little Guy jumping all over. We were going to get out of the house kind of early on one side and, on the other, I found myself in front of a Swaddlebees pocket and a Fuzzibunz insert.

I had already talked about this combo before. It works nice for a couple of hours, but those lovely minky inserts don't last long. I had also used prefolds in "girl mode" to stuff them, and I found out it is the right size of an insert for that specific pocket, in the smallest setting.

Having a mexican inspiration (did I ever mention I'm a proudly from Guanajuato?), and knowing in the back of my mind that there was going to be an adventure, I decided to have some fun and placed the minky insert on top of the prefold, and made the pad folding afterwards, leaving that insert inside the prefold tortilla.

Results? Great! what can I say? Baby lasted some 4.5 hours outside. He was happy to come back to trimland and slept through a Grovia afterwards.

On another subject, we had a non diaper related incident in the car. My husband likes coffee, a lot, specially in the morning. Since we didn't have time to finish it, we brought it in. It usually is never a problem, except that this time, he didn't close his thermus properly and after hitting the brakes, off it went, down his pants, the seat and everything else.

I was trying to help him cope with the situation when I remembered I had brought a Grovia AIO in my sling's pocket (I'm a light carrying mama). Well, we ended up placing it face down in the seat. Not only did it protect his butt from sweet moisture, but when we arrived, it was considerably wet. So now you know, it is possible to use AIO's in order to clean car's messes (will test for survival tomorrow, but no signs of coffee when it came out of the washer)